All right, so this is my, this is my story. My tale of woe with Tinkerbell. So, there's this place like right around the corner from my house. It's called Vetsavers and they have this deal where like the first, your first visit is free and, and they, they price, like they actually list their prices on the website of how much. Certain stuff is going to be like blood work, blah, blah, blah, which is impossible to find for vet. So I try, I priced it out and I was like, oh, this is cool. I'm just going to go here and she can have her annual here. That works. So, so I go in, everything's fine. Everything's normal. And, They, the doctor comes in, and she, like, immediately, she tenses up, like, you can tell that she's afraid of Tinkerbell, who, if she would have been, like, growling and being aggressive, I would understand, but Tinkerbell was literally in my lap. Press as hard as she possibly could against me and it was, she was, I was terrified. And, and so the, the vet, like it starts examining her and I said, I want you to take some blood work just to see how she's doing. And she takes the blood work and, she looks at her eyes and she said, She left and the guy to cut the nails came in and he cut the nails and then he left and then the tech comes back in and says, okay, you know, you're done. You can go to, you know, check out or wherever. And I was like, well, but what about the rest of the exam? Like, how's her heart? And like, she didn't take the temperature and like, she didn't really examine her. And I had asked about the hip and, and she was like, Huh. Oh, hold on for a second. And she leaves. She's gone for a while. She comes back and she's like, so, that doctor is like, it was in an acupuncture appointment. I'd started an acupuncture appointment. And, I, like, it was like this thing that was definitely not what happened. That chick freaked out and left.
Drea:Oh.
Carey:Yeah. And then she finally comes back in with a handler, mind you, like with the guy who did the, the, trimming the nails and it's a small room, right? So you got Tink, me, the vet, the tech, and Tinkerbell is, I can't tell you how little of a threat Tinkerbell was. She didn't move. I mean, she just wanted to be practically on my lap or, yeah. So it was, but. It was so sometimes you get what you pay for, I guess, is the lesson here that the free
Meags:Heh. Ha
Carey:exam
Meags:ha ha ha ha
Carey:was not was not really an exam.
Meags:Not very comprehensive.
Carey:right. Right. Right. So, it's like a quick way to get vaccines, but I wouldn't rely on it to, yeah, for, like, intensive medical care.
Lisa:getting big, but she's a sweetheart. How can I be afraid
Drea:she's a fucking vet. Like, I mean, how many
Carey:I know.
Drea:They should have seen a bazillion.
Carey:I would have thought. Yeah. And I mean, if
Meags:So,
Carey:it, I mean, because this was this woman was tiny. So maybe if, Tink was really aggressive, but she was not at all. and so,
Meags:So, here's the thing.
Carey:something else.
Meags:Some place like that is a place where people get started. So she may not have seen a zillion dogs. She might be a relatively recent vet school grad.
Lisa:Yeah, I had one of those and she was
Carey:That's a fair
Lisa:But we did want her bedside manner was horrible. She told me my dog had horrible teeth and I should just start saving money for dental surgery. And this is when Luna was just a couple years old. I'm like. Well, there's nothing I can do to, like, slow it down or something. And then I saw a new vet after that, and she's like, Well, she's part dachshund, and they just are known for having bad teeth. Like, they can have healthy gums, but bad teeth. And, and it was just, I was like, well, thank you. Thank you for explaining. The other one was just rude, and my dog was afraid of her, too. And that was another reason why I'm like, I'm not going back to her. So, I left. So, yeah, getting a new vet sucks.
Carey:adage, like, don't get sick in June because, you know, you're, or July because you'll get all the medical
Meags:all the new residents.
Carey:yeah, with having gone through all this with my mom, I can confirm happens, but it's probably the same with vet students, right? Like, everybody's graduated and now is at their job and they don't fucking know anything, especially if you go to the ones for free.
Lisa:Thank you.
Meags:Well, the other thing is like vet school is enormously hard to get into and just as expensive as med school. So if you are not in a position to start your own practice or join an established practice, and you're in for whatever reason, joining a practice like that, but I'm sure it's high turnover in a large metro area.
Carey:Yeah.
Meags:not the top of your class. Let's just say.
Kathy:Here's the thing, right? Think about this. I mean, not that, you know, they're both really, really hard, right? But when you are going to med school, you are studying one species. You are studying human
Meags:Yeah, absolutely. Yep.
Kathy:and they come in two, two general, and then when, when you,
Drea:in science, they call them Homo sapiens
Kathy:and then when you're studying for vets, you gotta, I mean, You could get a lizard, and a bird, and you could get a ferret, and a
Carey:Yeah,
Kathy:like, you know, all of them things.
Meags:And a cow and an elephant, like,
Kathy:And then the male and female, and a turtle, yeah, and a turtle, and a sugar glider, and whatever. And you, and, and all of those have those same formats.
Drea:goats.
Carey:Delaney wants to be a big animal vet.
Meags:That is, that is part of the reason why there are not as many vet schools as there are vet schools, because it's really hard. It's really hard to get
Carey:Yeah, it is really hard.
Drea:You'd think though that maybe they could have like,
Carey:bit is expensive.
Drea:like they could just have like a vet school where all you do is specialize in cats and dogs and maybe bunnies. You know what I mean? Like,
Carey:Well, I think it's kind of like a residency because Delaney wants to do big animals like horses and cows and things like that. So, from what I understand, like, yeah, you can go and specialize in something, but at first, it's just kind of a general education.
Drea:that makes sense.
Carey:So,
Drea:we've been going for a while. Hey, what's going on, Lisa? What should we talking about today?
Lisa:Well, all right. So I like read a book and it like inspired me all these different ideas. I read a book, you know, because, you know,
Drea:proud of you.
Lisa:Thanks. So I came up with, I'm just going to go for it and call it cover, not the whole thing, but basically the basics of the women's liberation move. When y'all think that,
Carey:Bum, bum, bum.
Drea:burning bras?
Carey:I think that sounds very interesting.
Lisa:I
Drea:I have a very strong opinion about bras. You all understand and
Lisa:you can just, we can go, we can discuss that, but I'm going to kind of, I'll be honest, so, I got all excited about the litigation of the 1970s part of it, but I, I am, I'm not going hardcore into it, because I know that can be rather lengthy and boring, and maybe Carrie would enjoy it, but I don't know about the rest of y'all, so,
Drea:right.
Meags:hehe.
Lisa:I am, so I don't have time to go the whole movement, but I want to talk about what women were liberating themselves from, so, we're going to
Carey:Right on. Working for the man.
Lisa:We're going to go back in time to 1970, the biggest films of the year was Love Story starring Elizabeth McGraw and Ryan O'Neill. Anyone ever seen it?
Meags:Oh yes,
Kathy:Yes.
Lisa:And also
Carey:for sure.
Lisa:Patton was,
Meags:McGraw? Just the hat alone from that movie is a classic.
Lisa:I can't say I've seen the whole movie, I have seen parts of it, but I have seen the next movie I'm going to talk about, which is Patton. Starring, starring George Scott, he won an Academy Award for Best Actor, but I didn't know this, he refused to accept the award because he disliked the voting process and the trend of competitive acting, which I thought was very cool. I mean, Pat and you think he's like, you know, gung ho, I don't know, just that he like protested, just kind of shocked me.
Carey:My brother in law loves that movie so much. He watches it all the time.
Kathy:Nick really liked it too. I mean, he'll watch it if he sees it's on. Great
Carey:Next.
Lisa:movie I remember watching with my dad. I
Meags:Yeah.
Lisa:liked it. And in 1970, the Beatles final album was released and just prior to the release, Paul McCartney released a statement that he planned to depart from the band because of personal differences and the need to spend more time with his family. So, some people that upset them more than, you know, Warren Vietnam, so. And then, in 1970, the Jackson 5 were becoming very popular. After their debut hit, I Want You Back. I'm not that familiar with it. I think it sounds like it's Canadian, but maybe it's...
Kathy:song.
Meags:That was a
Lisa:I Want You Back?
Kathy:Yeah,
Lisa:Oh,
Meags:They pull, they pulled a sample for that from all kinds of, for all kinds of things.
Lisa:I'm sure if I heard it, I'd recognize it. It just didn't ring a bell when I was kind of putting all this together.
Drea:Yeah, no, no bell ringing for me either.
Lisa:All right, good to know. But
Meags:know it if you heard it.
Carey:You guys know the
Lisa:and Garfunkel, any hear that? They released their final album, Bridge Over Troubled Waters.
Meags:A classic.
Lisa:Yeah, and then in the tech world, IBM announced system 370 and
Drea:a mainframe. I used to work with the, I didn't work with the mainframe, but I know what it is. I still have mainframes in
Lisa:yeah, it said, I didn't go in a deep, but the summary was, it was known for its backward compatibility with previous models, advanced engineering, and greater storage capacity, and it made it stand out as a promising landmark for the upcoming decade. So, you know, big giant computer.
Drea:Mainframe.
Lisa:And, in case you were wondering who was president, it was Nixon. And the war in Vietnam is still happening. U. S. forces had entered Cambodia in late April to attack the North Vietnamese and cut off the supply lines they were using in Cambodia to support the insurgency in South Vietnam. That was still raging. alright.
Carey:that my dad was in Vietnam.
Lisa:He was in Vietnam in 1970. Oh,
Carey:Yeah, like 69, 70, somewhere. Yeah, right around there. Yeah.
Meags:70 is the year my parents got married. Which makes figuring out their anniversary hella easy and I love that.
Lisa:parents got married in 1968.
Carey:were like 67, I think.
Lisa:Yeah, and my mom, my older sister was born in 1970, and my dad was in the Coast Guard from 68 to 70, so I don't know how that all worked out. But anyway, he spent a lot of time in New Orleans, I found out recently. That's kind of why my mom thought it was great. I went to college in New Orleans,
Carey:Oh, that's cool.
Lisa:I'm learning more about him all the time. So, I thought we'd move on to a little trivia. Y'all up for that? All
Drea:Always.
Carey:absolutely. Bring it on.
Lisa:All right. So what year did the women win the right to vote?
Drea:1920.
Carey:1919?
Meags:Thank
Lisa:right, you guys are both correct because it was passed in 1919 but ratified in 1920.
Carey:Yeah.
Lisa:All right.
Carey:go.
Lisa:So when, next, when were women allowed to serve on a jury?
Meags:That's a good question.
Drea:1946.
Lisa:Close. 1957 in federal court. However, it was not until 1973 that women were allowed to serve on juries in all 50 states.
Drea:No way.
Carey:No kidding! Wow.
Meags:pretty nuts,
Carey:That's interesting.
Lisa:Take a guess what state was the last state to let women be on a jury.
Carey:That's
Drea:Please don't say it's Texas.
Lisa:It was not Texas,
Drea:Mississippi, Louisiana.
Lisa:Mississippi.
Drea:M I S S I S S I P P I. Yes.
Carey:Well, that tracks. That tracks.
Lisa:in case you all were wondering why, apparently women were too sentimental to serve on a jury.
Carey:Ha ha ha ha ha.
Lisa:even after they were allowed to serve on juries, they were commonly excused from serving because they had children. Like they're just, they should be at home taking care of their children and not, you know, serving on a jury. However, there was a court case, and it didn't make it to the Supreme Court, but it was in the U. S. District Court of Eastern Louisiana. It's a case called Healy v. Edwards. There are going to be a few court cases here, I'm sorry.
Drea:okay.
Lisa:but she, she was opposing Louisiana's option jury service for women. And guess who her attorney was? a young woman. This was in the
Carey:sorry. Go ahead.
Lisa:in the 70s.
Drea:Was it
Lisa:not
Carey:Oh, wow.
Drea:Was it
Lisa:It was Ruth. It was Ruth Bader Ginsburg.
Carey:Shut up. There she is. Ladies and gentlemen.
Drea:Being a
Lisa:I know, it's like, as I'm doing this, I'm like, I should do a whole episode on her cases. Anyway, so Ginsburg argued that, optional jury service diminished a woman's citizenship, and women defendants were denied the right of a jury of their peers, and men would be called in more often because women were not required to. So it wasn't fair to men either. so,
Meags:even have women sit on juries during the world wars where they let women do everything?
Lisa:depending on what state you live.
Meags:That's so intriguing.
Lisa:Mm hmm.
Meags:Sorry.
Lisa:when were women allowed to have their own credit cards?
Carey:1972.
Meags:That was like
Drea:81
Kathy:1976
Drea:1981 1974.
Carey:Our birth year. My birth year. Wow.
Drea:of us,
Lisa:my birth was this.
Drea:most of us.
Lisa:It was thanks to something called the Equal Credit Opportunity Act. It granted women the right to get credit cards separate from their husbands.
Kathy:and passports. They also used to have a joint. It was my mom's first. Passport was her photograph was with dad.
Lisa:Really? You know, that sounds familiar. I think I've heard that before, but
Carey:Oh, that's weird. My parents, my dad, they had military, like, passports and IDs, so they weren't together. But that's, that's funny. That's interesting on the passports. Wow.
Lisa:remember as a kid, my mom, all, I mean, you know, I was born in 74, but I guess, you know, all their credit cards already were in my dad's name. And I always thought it was so weird my mom had credit cards in my dad's name when I was a kid. It's like, But
Drea:Well,
Carey:right, right. I
Drea:but Nancy,
Carey:it, but yeah.
Drea:Nancy told me this story about how her mom wanted like a Dillard's card and, and she was there, she was trying to get it for herself somewhere in the seventies and they would not let her. Get it even like, you know, it's, they had, she had to get her, her, her husband's permission and he had to come down there and sign for it. This is a grown ass woman with children and he was furious. He was furious. He's like, I'm the, she, she does the shopping. She does the shopping.
Carey:Yeah, right, right.
Lisa:Joe told me this story. So his parents got divorced around like 1980. So this is like 1981. Her, his mom's probably like early 40s, late 30s. She wanted to buy a car. She couldn't, they wouldn't let her, they wouldn't let her sign like the credit application. Her father had to come in and sign the credit because she had no,
Carey:No kidding.
Lisa:history, because everything was in her husband's name. Isn't that ridiculous? And on top of that, they treated her like she was a little girl. And she's, you know, has five kids at home, or five kids, four kids. And yeah, just
Carey:Right, right.
Drea:Yeah.
Lisa:She's a nurse, she's a working woman. It's
Drea:Kathy, were you going to say something? I felt like you were going to say something.
Kathy:maybe I
Drea:Okay. Just want to make sure we don't pass it over anyone.
Meags:You keep us posted, Kathy.
Kathy:Well, just so, well, yeah, I remember what I was gonna say now is like, you know, what if, what if you're just a woman who never got married, you know,
Drea:And your dad was gone.
Kathy:yeah,
Carey:You're a
Lisa:have to,
Carey:I
Drea:Yeah. What if you're a lesbian?
Carey:people just get married.
Meags:so my aunt,
Lisa:have your brother sign stuff.
Meags:both of my great aunts lived in DC. Like they moved there from Iowa. In the 30s and live there as single women until their death in their late 80s and 90s.
Carey:Ooh, like, great garden. How interesting.
Kathy:yeah,
Meags:So the whole thing is very interesting, but like the building that they lived in on Smith circle, which is just one over from DuPont. That building was initially a woman's apartment building. Like, it was a, it was a place where you could rent an apartment if you were, like, you know, like, single women were not supposed to be in the mix with everybody else.
Kathy:yeah, yeah,
Meags:So, like, they were
Carey:Oh, that's really interesting.
Meags:it was super
Kathy:have those.
Meags:And then, by the time, like, so I remember that being like that when I went to visit them in the 80s. It was not all women anymore, but it was, It was mostly, it was a lot of people who had lived there for that reason, so it was a lot of older women who lived alone and who had always worked and, you know, but like, not every, I mean, obviously that's a very big urban center, so like, I can't imagine it's something that you had that option in a ton of other places. but that, I know that that was part of what, you know, like, like, there were a lot of things in the city that were very, well, this is just for single women, you know, like, like, very sort of, in loco parentis kind of stuff, like when we were in college, like, you know, like where
Carey:Yeah. Right.
Meags:you're sort of on your own, but we're kind of in charge of you.
Carey:Yeah. The Virgin Laws. Yeah.
Lisa:You know what that makes me think of? Remember the show Booze and Buddies?
Meags:Yep. There you go. Yep. Just like that.
Carey:of the best
Lisa:of the show.
Meags:That was.
Lisa:I was not allowed to watch that show. But I watched the
Meags:Oh.
Lisa:My father did not approve of men dressing as women. That's a whole other topic. I'm not, we're not talking about that in this episode. That's a whole other episode.
Drea:That's a totally different episode.
Lisa:Oh.
Drea:All right. Keep telling us. Give it to us.
Lisa:moving on. Alright, got another question for you. Did you guys know that 1 ads were when separated by jobs for women and jobs for men? 1 ads were split.
Carey:I'm sorry, what was the beginning of the question?
Lisa:So like, 1 ads were separate from men
Carey:Oh, I know the, it's Marjorie Mattson. She was the attorney on, on that case that, you know,
Lisa:year that is?
Carey:ads. Yeah. And, at any rate, that's the award I got was the Marjorie Matheson award when I got my lawyer award. Yeah, cool, huh?
Meags:I didn't know you got a lawyer award.
Carey:sorry to
Drea:That's pretty awesome.
Carey:like, I know this,
Drea:I love lawyer
Carey:we're information's different.
Lisa:do you know? I don't have her name here. I just have like, years. I don't kind of what happened. So that do you know what, when they, they can no longer do that
Carey:I want to say it was like, maybe the, like, late 70s,
Lisa:a little early. There was, so the equal employment opportunity commission. 1968 that those ads were no longer permissible, but of course it was challenged in court. And then in 1973, the Supreme Court upheld the ruling.
Carey:Oh, okay. All right. So it's early. Yeah. Oh, that's cool. That's cool.
Lisa:So, then, what I read in Wikipedia was it opened the path for women to apply for higher paying jobs. It's like, yes, they could apply for them, but they didn't necessarily get them. So,
Drea:I know.
Lisa:because a lot of businesses didn't think women were good candidates, which is... How I got started in this topic, I was reading this book called Good Girl, I can't talk, Good Girl's Revolt. It's by Lynn Hovitch, and it's about a group of women who sued Newsweek for refusing to hire women as writers. And what was interesting about this case is that, so women were being hired as researchers and, or in the mailroom, but they were not allowed to be promoted as writers. In many cases, the women had the same education as the men. Same, you know, same amount of experience, everything, but the men would get hired, or the men would have, the women would have more experience because they would have all this experience as a researcher, and the men would be hired like right out of college to be a writer, and the women could only be researchers. So, in 1970, 46 women sued Newsweek for gender discrimination. It was a groundbreaking lawsuit, and it set the standard for how such lawsuits would be resolved in the future. A long time. It started getting very complicated. And I was like, they have to, like, they had this settlement, but then the, like, management wasn't following the settlement. So they had to go back, because it was, it was kind of a learning process for attorneys, too, on how to write these settlements up to, like, actually make it enforceable. So, in this book, they said that women were told they couldn't cope because of their periods.
Drea:Of course.
Kathy:I mean, some days, wrong.
Drea:Yeah, but, but
Lisa:But
Drea:men, men have their own
Lisa:days.
Drea:I know.
Lisa:I think they have their bad days. We can't have a bad day because we're having our period start. I mean, and then, so, so, I think I have a typo here because this does not make sense. Oh, it's a male. It's white. It's like white make my it's white male, white male Harvard graduates. They would get plum internships and overseas assignments, where women were relegated to the mail room and fact checking.
Carey:Hail mail and yell.
Lisa:Wow. So, Newsweek didn't even look to these women to write a groundbreaking cover story on feminism. Instead, they chose a woman from the New York Post who was a wife of an editor. And then, and so, this article came out the same day that These women, with their attorney announced their lawsuit. So they had a press conference on March 16th, the day that article came out. And even the article covering the announcement about the lawsuit was like sexist in today's standards. They talk of slim, mini skirted, pretty, and young. You know, talking about the women who were at the press conference. And a bespeckled brunette. I don't know. So, so that Newsweeks thing kind of started a trend after that. There was a sit-in at the Women's Home Journal after that lawsuit was filed, and then Women, the Washington Post, there was a lawsuit there. And then, let's
Drea:It sounds like it's a lot of like, I mean, newspapers and magazines and things that are getting good or having, but they're the ones that are actually having the, they're the ones that actually
Lisa:mm-hmm.
Drea:pretty fantastic.
Lisa:Yeah. And it's kind of crazy that they're covering this, but they don't see it in their own magazine, like in their practices. Like they're, it's like they're covering the. The whole like women's liberation movement, but they're not apparently they don't really understand what it's about. They're not even noticing it in their own. Publication, you know what I mean?
Meags:I think they were all hoping that it was a fad that wasn't gonna last
Carey:Yeah, we're some of these. Hey, I have a question where some of these labor suits like union or were these all like, I'm just wondering what's like how the union showed apart because you know they did I mean they were the ones who really held the standard,
Lisa:was there was a,
Carey:misogynistic.
Lisa:yeah, I didn't write. I, it was kind of complicated and I had already had so much that I put it in here, but there was, I know there was a lawsuit at AT& T. And it was women not being allowed to do something with AT& T. Some sort of work with, like, the phone lines. I forget the job, the job title. Yeah,
Carey:Yeah. Oh, that's cool. Yeah.
Lisa:So, and they won that lawsuit. I mean, because they were listing the job. I don't, you know, it was still, they were listing that job as a, as a men's job, so they're
Carey:Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember. Yeah. Okay. All right. Sorry. I'll stop
Lisa:no, no, you're fine. I like interruptions. So, then in, in 1971, I've got another Ruth Bader Ginsburg here. She argued in front of the Supreme Court, against a law that was giving preference to men as an executor of estates, and she was arguing it was unconstitutional. Thank you. And it was the first time that the Supreme Court ruled that the 14th Amendment Equal Rights Clause protected women as well. So that had previously been used for, you know, equal rights for, you know, based on race. And this is the first time it had been used based on women. There's a whole, I mean, there's difference in how they analyze it, but you guys don't want to know all about that, so. Did not pull out my law books on that one. What?
Carey:what is the, what year was that? So, do you think that. Dogs, you know, like with the, I do think dogs affects that at all, like women's rights being restricted.
Lisa:I think it chips away at it because it's, yeah, like suddenly they're saying, and I kind of touch on this later. Well, I don't really need discussion, but I think the taking away the right to abortion, which probably the row case, I'm sure discusses the 14th amendment and equal rights, but
Carey:Yeah, right.
Lisa:I don't think that's how I, yeah, I don't think that's. I'm not,
Carey:I'm just kind of thinking out loud because it seems like there's a connection. but I don't, I can't really articulate it.
Lisa:I know I'm not saying much, and I haven't read the full, their full decision because I figured it would just make me angry, so I
Carey:Yeah, I'm sure like there's for anybody interested in that out there I'm sure there's like a gazillion constitutional scholars who have written about this.
Lisa:And if any of them happen to be listening to this podcast, please email us and let us know
Carey:Yeah, if you know, yeah, absolutely. Please let us know.
Lisa:is it again, Andrea?
Drea:B fs i s@gmail.com.
Lisa:Thank you, Andrea.
Drea:You're welcome.
Lisa:So, I found something.
Drea:Sorry,
Lisa:What?
Drea:I was just making up an acronym. It's fine,
Meags:Evil Laughter
Drea:Keep going. Keep
Lisa:all right, 1971. Congress actually passed something I wish they'd pass now. It's called the Comprehensive Child Development Act, which would have provided child care on a sliding fee scale to working families as a matter of right. However, Nixon vetoed it. it would commit the vast moralist, I don't need to cut some out, the vast moral authority of the national government to the side of communal approaches to child rearing over, over against the family centered approach. So I don't know, like somehow it's like the communal thing makes me think was it somehow like communist to have daycare, government paid daycare as
Drea:just didn't want you leaving the house and putting shoes on.
Kathy:yeah.
Drea:Because he wanted to tell us that that's the family, their traditional family. The mom stays
Lisa:Oh, yeah.
Drea:Why have daycare? Because the
Meags:in the, women in the 70s did not like Nixon. Like, my mom intentionally held off on having me a whole day so I wouldn't be born on Nixon's birthday.
Carey:Shut up. I love your
Meags:she had been in labor on and off for like a week and she was like, Today is not the day she is not going to be born on Nixon's birthday.
Lisa:is awesome.
Kathy:Amazing.
Carey:That
Meags:I feel, and I got, I got the impression from, you know, her general social set, that was, that was, he was not a popular man.
Carey:Yeah.
Meags:with, not with, you know,
Carey:the impression I get from my parents too. Yeah.
Meags:know, middle class white women, at least.
Lisa:It didn't really tie. Have you guys watched that Gaslit series on, was it Stars? I think that's what I saw it on. It's with Julia Roberts. I just recently watched that and that was pretty interesting. Just
Carey:Oh, yeah, I've
Lisa:that poor woman, that poor woman. I mean, she was basically held captive.
Drea:Oh, she was at West, she was a, whistleblower, right? Is that right? Okay.
Lisa:she was the wife of the former Attorney General, his last name is Mitchell, his first name is escaping me.
Carey:Oh, Martha Mitchell. Oh, that's what it's
Lisa:And then he was the head of the, pre, committee to re elect the president. And he, he basically like talked to me,
Drea:Real life Nixon. Like, yes. Okay.
Lisa:yeah. So, he, she is his wife. And she's making all the papers, just like the society papers kind of thing. you know, just, oh, she's crazy. She's just kind of a silly woman. But then she was coming out saying how she was held captive, and she knows her, you know, Nixon knows about the, the Watergate break ins and everything. And everybody was just, her husband, the, this FBI guy that was there, I think he was an FBI guy, all like, just bad mouthing her, and just... She was just treated horribly, basically because she was a woman.
Drea:Well, I mean, I'm not saying that that's not true. But I bet you a man in that position who was whistleblowing would have been, you know, not treated very well either.
Lisa:yeah,
Carey:don't think they would have, they wouldn't have been accused that they were crazy. They might not have been treated well, but they wouldn't have been accused that they were crazy. I mean, I think that,
Drea:That's
Lisa:Right.
Carey:yeah.
Lisa:And part of it was they did say she had a drinking problem, and in truth, I mean, they portrayed it as she did have a slight drinking problem, so that wasn't a total lie. But just because you have a drinking problem doesn't mean you're, you know,
Drea:You're a liar.
Carey:70s had a drinking problem. I
Lisa:Right?
Drea:He had a drug problem.
Lisa:man, I think they were prescribing Vicodin like it was candy.
Drea:And I wanted to call him low class, but that's not what it is. Quaaludes.
Kathy:Ludes. Ludes.
Lisa:And then they drank with their drugs, which didn't help any, anybody
Carey:anybody got
Meags:then they
Kathy:that lude down with some
Meags:told them how dangerous it was. And the cars all weighed 10 million pounds, so it was fine. So run into stuff and keep driving.
Lisa:Right.
Meags:I tell ya.
Drea:All right, Lisa. What else? What other learnings we got going on? What else do we
Lisa:so I got some more just stuff about the seventies and the women.
Drea:Okay.
Lisa:So we had some new businesses emerging. We had feminist bookstores, feminist magazines, coffee shops, healthcare clinics, women's previous private issues were now in the public domain. MS. Magazine was, pub was began publication in 1972. But, you know, magazines these days are basically nothing, no one really reads them anymore. But back then, this magazine made a huge impact on media. It was the first mainstream publication written, edited, owned, and operated by women. And it featured, stories on things that most, male dominated publications probably were not covering at the time, such as domestic violence, sexual harassment, and they commissioned to study on date rates. Yeah, so pulling people out of the dark ages into, look what's going on, look what all women have to put up with.
Carey:interesting.
Drea:And we still have to, I
Lisa:right.
Drea:still have to, that's a bit sad.
Lisa:In 1972, the FCC granted a petition from the National Organization for Women, requiring that women be included in affirmative action programs for radio and television stations as a condition for the renewal of their broadcast license. Then in February of 1973, 53 women from NBC filed a complaint with the EEOC, the U. S. Department of Labor, and New York City Commission on Human Rights, and they found that the complaint had merit. NBC conceded that the commission's report for the years 1967 to 1972 reflect the historical trends in society, that women have been underutilized in managerial positions and overutilized in clerical positions.
Drea:You have to tell you, I was, what, what year is this? 2023. I was in a meeting and I have to say my company, they do have a lot of women in leadership roles, but I was in this meeting and they hired another dude. I was like, okay, we've got another, another middle aged white guy. Running shit. I mean, it was like, I was in a, I was in a room like conducting a meeting like a few weeks ago and I was the only woman in there. I mean, like, these are all like leadership roles or like executive
Carey:Oh, man, that sounds like a law firm.
Drea:yeah, I was, I was, I mean, I feel like women have. Gotten like higher that, you know, I mean like they're getting there, but they're, they're still just like a rung underneath, you know,
Carey:Oh, yeah, yeah,
Lisa:it was interesting where I work. I'm not going to say where exactly I work, you know, it's a federal agency. There's certain standards they have to follow. And there was a woman who was in charge of our whole, just call it a department, right? And then like the next level managers needed to hire, she hired two. It was within a year. There was just, we were like a new place for, This agency. So it just started. So the people that were there were just there for like the first two years, I think. And then they moved on to like another assignment and we needed like, permanent people. They hired two men to those positions. I'm like, why is this woman hiring two men in these positions? I thought that was that I couldn't stand her for many reasons. And one of them is I think she was threatened by women, but
Drea:that's probably why.
Meags:there's all kinds of interesting reasons about why things shake out like that, because there was a point in the early aughts that, you know, I work in retail. So it's an ever changing range of faces right above you in the store. Plus, you know, above you from there. and. We had somebody new take over who solely but surely replaced, the majority of the store directors with gay men. And when people started being like, what's up? her feeling was that it was, advantageous because they don't take maternity leave.
Drea:Oh, well, that's a
Carey:Shut the fuck
Meags:And I was like,
Drea:we would call that like
Meags:I'm pretty sure you shouldn't say that out loud.
Lisa:it
Drea:pretty sure that's illegal.
Meags:Like, I'm pretty sure that's not how, like, like that, and I'm pretty, I'm pretty sure that, you know, those people are not going to be happy that that's the reason you chose them. And
Carey:Oh,
Meags:it was all, you know, but, you know, that, but that was, you know, that was a time and a place where there were just tons of bodies so you could pick who you wanted to pick. There were lots of people applying. There was lots of, you know, there was lots of money to be had, like, you know, pre recession. And, you know, if you're going to pick a theme that, that particular person picked that theme. So like, there's all kinds of people who make all kinds of interesting choices when it comes to hiring.
Carey:yeah,
Meags:And sometimes it's gender and
Carey:a law
Meags:even more fucked up than that.
Lisa:Yeah, that's
Carey:yeah, in a law firm I, you know, it's always been especially working in like West Virginia. I mean, there are many, many times that I was the only female in the room for miles, and it is just like, when you see another woman in the room, you're just like, Oh God, I hope she's not a bitch like I hope I can work with her, or at least talk to her. So.
Drea:I know. Yeah. I mean, I definitely in that meeting, I would say like, I, and I don't know if this is, I felt welcome and comfortable. Like I didn't, and I was comfortable. So it was, I didn't feel like anybody was looking at me and thinking, Oh, she's a woman. Why is she here? You know what I mean? Like, it was just,
Carey:Yeah.
Drea:we still have a problem. It's just like, I think we're going in the
Carey:Well, it sounds like progress. I mean, because my experience in firms was like 10 years ago. Oh, God. Amazing.
Lisa:No. okay. So there's one other thing. Oh, in 1973, there was a group of women in Boston. They had been studying. This is kind of weird. I wish I had time to research this more. So they had apparently they've been studying their own anatomy and sexuality. And then they wrote and published a book called Our Bodies, Ourselves. Which revolutionized how the world looked at women's health and that women's bodies were as worthy of research as men's.
Kathy:Well, I
Carey:I remember finding my mom's copy of that and I was fascinated. Just fascinated by it. Maybe the naked pictures had a lot to do with it.
Lisa:back, you know, at a certain age. then, you know, in 1973, there was this thing called Roe v. Wade that gave women constitutional right to abortion. But then, you know, 50 years later, it was a huge step backwards. And now it's led to some women's health care decisions being made more difficult because laws have made doctors scared of how to treat women who are having issues with their pregnancies. You know, Oh, you're miscarrying. I can't do anything about it. Things like
Drea:Wait till you're almost dead. It's basically, it's basically what they
Meags:Get in
Carey:Yeah.
Drea:come back when you're almost dead.
Lisa:I need to clarify if they're going to say, you know, unless the. You know, it's a threat to the woman's health. Well, you need to define that. I'm sorry.
Drea:They left it intentionally ambiguous.
Carey:die and we'll bring you back. I mean, that can't be the answer.
Drea:But they left it like that intentionally. Like they've left the language like that intentionally. Two scared doctors. Yeah.
Carey:Yeah. Oh, yeah, they have. And it's been successful.
Lisa:but what I mean, I don't understand the purpose in it, but I digress. I have other news in Newsweek. They got sued again in 2009, because they were kind of under the same practices. Back into this article I read was from 2010 and it stated that. nine. 49 of the cover of Newsweek starts complete like the year before. Newsweek cover stories, 49 of them are written by men and only 6 are written by women. So, definitely hadn't reached equality at Newsweek. And then, unfortunately, last little note is that there is still a wage gap between men and women, but it has improved. So in 1970, a woman's weekly wage was 59. 23 percent of a man's weekly earning.
Drea:Oh my God.
Lisa:In 1979, it improved a little bit to 60. 5 percent of a man's weekly earning. But the last, the latest statistics from 2023 is a woman's wage is 83 percent of what a man earns. But what's interesting is that there are women, there's women, 48 percent of women age 25 and older have a college degree over 41 percent of men, but yet they're still earning more than women on average.
Carey:damn it. Well, you know what? I think the best employment advice I got was, you know, when I was just feeling like, just like making the partner's money, right? And it was just kind of a miserable experience. And I wanted to just kind of coast. And the coworker said to me, Carrie, just act like a mediocre white man. And I was like, Oh, you're so right. Like, I mean, they just get the coats. And so,
Meags:They do, and then they get riled up because they're like, Why am I not being promoted? Because you kind of suck. You're not that good at this. but then,
Carey:Oh,
Meags:And like, but they're not, they're not afraid to go to three or four higher ups and be like, you know, I think I need more money. I think you need to do this and that for me. And it's like, dude.
Carey:that's so true. Yeah. It's so true. I've gotten better in my old age, but it's true.
Lisa:I've gotten that advice about applying for jobs. And I'm like, well, I'm not really qualified. They're like, you know, men don't care about that. They just apply for the jobs anyway. Just go ahead and apply. I'm like, that's, that's good advice. I
Drea:yeah,
Lisa:on with it.
Carey:Absolutely. Yeah.
Drea:No, I, I, I learned to negotiate at the beginning, you know, like to, like, if I was offered something to make sure that I negotiated up, because that is the time, but women, women often, they like undervalue themselves. And
Carey:Yeah, I bet that's that's
Drea:You know, yeah, which is I'm not blaming the woman. I mean, you know, it's just, I feel like societally we're not, we're supposed to be modest. We're not supposed to be like super proud of, of our achievements and even to think that we could earn as much as a man, you know, like
Meags:Well, the other thing is, like, if there's some real questions about what we're taught by our society, but also by our schools, because, like, I'm shocked by the number of people who, Want a raise and like they don't understand that you have to tell them what you're you know If you're gonna go to someone and ask them for money, you have to tell them what you're doing for them You can't just be like Mike my apartment's more expensive I need a raise and I've explained that to a number of people over the years and they're always like oh How did you make it this far without, but you know, like, it's like, it's like one of those things where it's like, you know, I don't use the Pythagorean theorem very often. But gosh, if they had taught me something like negotiating my salary or how to apply for a job or a raise.
Carey:how to file your own FRI taxes. Yeah,
Meags:more helpful.
Lisa:Last job,
Carey:that's true.
Lisa:this girl. She was like her first job out of college. And at first things seemed to go really well, and then I could tell she wasn't that happy, and she talked about it, and she's like, you know, everything's great, everything's fine, you know, I thought she was doing a good job, I complimented her, everybody in the office was really nice to her, supported her, one day she just didn't show up to work, like, okay, after like, the next day, the second day she didn't show up, I called to make sure everything was okay, she didn't answer, I never heard back, like, a week later, I got a phone call, she put me down as a reference, Like, well, that takes a lot of guts.
Meags:I
Drea:Crazy.
Carey:Oh,
Lisa:So I just, you know, I just referred them to, I was like, you know, I could just, you know, she did work here. You can call this number to get, you know, her dates of employment. I'm like, I can't really say anything further.
Carey:Yeah, right, right.
Drea:That is a totally reasonable answer. I think that was good. It's a good way to go.
Lisa:you. Thank you. Anyway, so that is that is for what it's worth. My presentation on what women were liberating themselves from and still are
Drea:Yay.
Lisa:50 years later.
Carey:That
Drea:Good job. Good job.
Meags:Do you want to plug your book again that inspired all this? Do you want to tell us what it's called
Lisa:Sure. It is called The Good Girls Revolt. See? It's
Drea:Good girls revolt. All right.
Lisa:Lynn by Lynn Povich.
Carey:do you know if the, there, I think there's a series on Amazon that's called Good Girls Revoked. Is it, is it about
Lisa:on, is based on this book, but they don't use the word Newsweek.
Carey:Yeah, yeah.
Lisa:something else. It's, and there's different, there's some different characters and things that happen in there. But yes, it's a really good series. It's really sad it didn't get renewed for a second season because it leaves you hanging like there's going to be a second season. And then
Carey:Oh,
Drea:Ah,
Carey:wow.
Meags:You never know who else will buy it and decide to make one.
Lisa:Yes.
Drea:That's true. right, girls. I think we are done for the evening. Love seeing you. I have absolutely no idea what we're going to talk about next week. I think you guys might remember I have like a slippery brain recently. I can't remember shit.
Carey:I like that description.
Lisa:surprise.
Drea:But I'll go next
Carey:right on. Yeah.
Drea:I'll go next week with my slippery brain.
Meags:Okay.
Lisa:Sounds good. Sounds entertaining.
Drea:We'll see. We'll see.
Meags:Only time will tell. Stay tuned.
Drea:All right.