Join us for a riveting discussion of gun law, gun violence and solutions that don't involve taking guns away from people.
Join us for a riveting discussion of gun law, gun violence and solutions that don't involve taking guns away from people.
Hey ladies.
lisa-guns:Hello.
meags-guns:hey, hey there.
lisa-guns:Good
carey-guns:Memorial Day.
drea-guns:Happy Memorial Day.
carey-guns:guess that's not really a happy, why don't we say
lisa-guns:happy beginning of summer? Yes.
carey-guns:and a thoughtful memorial day.
drea-guns:Yeah, thoughtful Memorial Day.
lisa-guns:My, my children and husband not, I went into our local, what do you call it, veterans cemetery and put flags out on the graves with the Boy Scouts.
meags-guns:Aw,
carey-guns:Well, that's nice.
meags-guns:that's very nice.
drea-guns:I was walking in the graveyard. I was walking in the graveyard near my house in Buffalo and and there was a lady there putting, well, I like to walk there. It was also beautiful
carey-guns:Graveyards are great to walk in. They're so peaceful.
drea-guns:yeah.
lisa-guns:my, my brother in Brooklyn apparently blocks and through, there's like graves, like cemeteries. That's what you do in Brooklyn is walk through all the cemeteries according to my brother,
drea-guns:Yeah. Yeah, I was, what was I doing there? Oh, I was walking. I don't remember why I started telling you guys that. So nevermind. I mean, not
lisa-guns:do Memorial Day. Maybe
carey-guns:Somebody who's setting out flags.
drea-guns:Yes. But it wasn't just flags. It was like a whole setup for all of them, like flowers and flags. Little bobbleheads. No, I'm just kidding about the bobbleheads. she had,
lisa-guns:too.
drea-guns:it's not, it's not reverent enough. So anyway, but yeah, it was, it was neat to see her and I'm sure she, and she saw me and I was like walking around and I'm sure she was like, who is this person walking around in a graveyard? So, anyway. Hmm.
lisa-guns:found a graveyard in St. Louis recently where I went, I was walking, cuz I was at this retreat. And they encouraged you to go walking down this trail to the cemetery. So I did. There were people there that had fought in the Revolutionary War, so from the Revolutionary War through the Vietnam War at the Cemetery's, really old
carey-guns:Wow.
meags-guns:Yeah.
drea-guns:didn't even know we had people out there, during the, this, the first war,
lisa-guns:well, the Revolut, well, what happened was they fought in the Revolutionary War, like on the East Coast and then they came out west Missouri to, you know, go to the crazy wild west of the time.
meags-guns:I love thinking about Missouri as the wild West.
lisa-guns:Apparently it was at one point in time
drea-guns:Hmm. So what was your big news, Lisa?
lisa-guns:Well this is crazy. So my 16 year old son who is very shy and sweet is going to be gone all summer as a camp counselor at a boy scout camp.
carey-guns:Oh, cool.
meags-guns:that's very cool.
drea-guns:That is really cool.
lisa-guns:I'm very excited for him, but not what I was expecting his first job to be. But I'm very
carey-guns:Oh, that's great. I always, I always looked up to, I, I was jealous of people who were camp counselors, but
drea-guns:Me too.
carey-guns:yeah, it seemed like a hold job.
lisa-guns:day camp counselor once the summer between freshman and sophomore year of college.
drea-guns:Hmm.
lisa-guns:That was
meags-guns:My brother was a camp counselor for ages, and it was like we had to like pry him out of that job. You know? He was like trying to figure out how he could take time off from his real job to do it. And it was like, Brendan, you just have to stop.
lisa-guns:Wow. No, he is so excited. He's so psyched. I mean, and the camp is only about an hour and a half away from here, so it's not too far, but it's still, for him, it's pretty far for kid
drea-guns:Yeah.
lisa-guns:when he talks about college, he thinks about staying within an hour of St. Louis. So very exciting.
carey-guns:That's awesome.
lisa-guns:I'm
meags-guns:You don't have to feed him or clean his room or anything, just send him
lisa-guns:came to that realization, the, the other night, last night we went out to dinner and I'm like, this summer's gonna be so much cheaper. We're not gonna have to feed you a year old boy. It's very expensive to feed.
drea-guns:I applied to work at my summer camp, but it was like a super crazy Christian camp. I didn't know we talked about it before and they
carey-guns:Yeah. Sky Ranch.
drea-guns:Yeah, sky Ranch. And they, and they had this question on there though, like basically about like, what do you think of gay people? And, I, I could, I was like, I, I knew at that point that I would not be able to answer it the right way, like the way they wanted me to, because I, you know, I was like, I, I'm fine with it, you know? I was like, I don't, you know, I mean, we weren't quite as evolved as we are now, but I was like, I can't imagine like really even caring so much about, you know, who other people have sex with. So whatever I wrote on there definitely disqualified me. So anyway, but I don't mind.
meags-guns:I think it all turned out for the best.
drea-guns:It did turn out for the best.
lisa-guns:sounds like it.
drea-guns:All right. Well, okay. I, I had a little intro for us today, since we were doing something different. so, well, first of all, I wanted to kind of give our audience a, a trigger warning. So basically if they're against a gun reform, then this, I think this will probably piss him off. So just letting you know now, cause I'm pretty sure all of us want, gun reform in some level. and so our topic is gun violence. after the killings in March, in Nashville. I was so upset that I asked you guys to help. I really wanted you guys to help me present, kind of a really healthy, show on gun violence. So, I am, I thank you guys for helping me do this. I think Lisa is up first and then Carrie and then me. I think that's what it was gonna go and mean. Are you doing something? Cuz I don't If youre gonna
meags-guns:I, I I do have a little something to say. Yes.
drea-guns:Okay. And me's gonna,
lisa-guns:She's just gonna be quiet.
drea-guns:will you just barge in wherever you feel like you belong. So anyway, and I also like lots of, I would just say is like, I really wish that I could put on the music, the, that the Foster, foster, the People's Punk pump up the kicks. Do you guys know that song?
meags-guns:Yeah.
carey-guns:No.
drea-guns:Well, you would if I could play it for you. It's the, oh, I don't know. I can't even say it now cuz you know how it is when you start thinking about a song. You can't sing it, but there's a line in there that says You better run, run, run Faster than My Gun. And it was written about Columbine, so it's, yeah. So anyway, I know you guys have heard it, so look for it. It's foster the people's, pumped up kicks.
carey-guns:Okay.
meags-guns:Sounding familiar at all.
carey-guns:No, but that's okay.
drea-guns:so, okay, Lisa,
lisa-guns:All
drea-guns:on deck.
lisa-guns:so, you know me in history, so I have some notes about the history of the Second Amendment because that seems to be the core argument against any sort of reform whatsoever about gun laws. And I'm frustra. I was frustrated because I really couldn't find anything just based on the history of why it was and how it was written. That has to do anything with what our current issues are today.
carey-guns:Hmm.
lisa-guns:But let me go forward. I wanna say that I actually did some research. I looked at, Cornell Law School had a good, law review article. That I read about this, I went to Wikipedia article and I got some information that cited the law school at U M K C, and little information from the good old History channel. So I just wanna say that I did do some research on this and just not making this good up. Oh, here we go. So I first am gonna read the second Amendment, cuz I think that's important. Second Amendment says, a well regulated militia being necessary to security of a free state. The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. That's it, that's what it says. All right.
meags-guns:one.
lisa-guns:It's short. It's short. Very, seems pretty simple about a militia and keeping arms for a militia. But anyway, the Bill of Rights was written by James Madison and the, you know, the purpose of the Bill of Rights was during the debate for the passage during a constitutional constitution convention. to pass a, you know, they're debating getting ready to vote in the Constitution and they're going back and forth. And through that a pledge ended up being made that additional bills would be proposed to add to the Constitution. Cuz there are still fears of different things that would happen on different levels. We would need to go into all that. So the opponents of ratification quickly seized upon the absence of the Bill of Rights and Federalists especially, James Madison soon realized that they must offer to add amendments to the Constitution after its ratification. Only by making such a pledge where the Constitution supporters able to achieve ratification is such a closely vetted state, such as New York and Virginia. So the Second Amendment, traces fruits through with the English bill of Rights of 1689. It declared subject, sorry, I can talk. Hold on. Subjects which are Protestants may have arms for their defense suitable to their condition and is allowed by law. And that provision grew out of friction over the English crown's efforts to use loyal militias to control and disarm descendants and enhanced the Crown's standing army, among other things prior to the glorious revolution that, the Planet King James ii inferior of William and Mary. So it really had to do with like old English politics and things. So there was a discussion of Protestants in it. So, so the mistrust of standing armies, like those employed by the English crown to control the colonies and anti-federalists concerns, having like a central, you know, there's whole battle when they're with the constitution, which you're having a centralized federal government and each state having its own. Like how much power did the states have?
drea-guns:Can I have a second? Okay, so we just switched from talking about the English back to the American, the,
lisa-guns:That's the American debate. So this is, so you gotta think, so these are all the u you know, a few years prior to writing a constitution, they were British subjects. So this is the history they know.
drea-guns:Okay.
lisa-guns:So now, so now they have a mistrust. Like, so they don't want, you know, so they're gonna have, they don't want the centen, the federal government to have too much centralized power. Like there really was a debate, like, how much, how are they gonna have, were they gonna have a standing army that would sit there and put down the states was a huge concern. So there is a debate about, provisions in the Constitution give, Congress the power to establish and fund an army. As well as to organize armed discipline and call forth the militia in certain circumstances. So the motivation of these, have been the recognition, the danger of relying on an inadequately trained soldiers as a primary means of providing for the common defense. So basically, you know, having, so having this amendment added would allow for there to always be well trained people in a militia, in a state militia, to be called up in the defense of the state or the go the federal government. So, wrote, you know, the Madison drafted the Bill of Rights, wrote how the federal Army could be kept by check, in check by the militia that having a standing army would then. Be opposed by the militia. He argued that the state's government would be able to rep, repel the danger of a federal army, and it may be doubted whether militia, thus circumstance could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops. Though he contrasted the federal government of the United States to the European kingdoms. so he was, so basically the European kingdoms would go out to, smaller parts of their country and kind of take over, you know, keep people down and keep'em well behaved kind of thing. So he was trying, you know, there's just this whole battle again between the federal, a federal army versus a state militia. So, several
drea-guns:So they were, they were afraid of that. The federal government, if they had their own army or whatever, would try to keep'em down? No, press them.
lisa-guns:Right. If they ever felt, if they ever like were protesting about what the government was doing, then the army would just come and put them down.
drea-guns:Okay. That was the fear.
lisa-guns:That was the big fear. So James Madison produced the initial draft of the Second Amendment, and this first draft stated the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well armed and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country. But no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person. So the first committee that got this was House of Representatives and they considered, Madison's, formulation. They altered it, to the, instead of militia, as composed of the body of the human people. And then they made some other little changes. So the debate in the house, which is. You know, they were arguing about people in power and their ability to declare who are religiously scrupulous and prevent them from burying arms. So they felt like, okay, if you bring religion into this, then you're just kind of bringing this whole other thing about, cuz you know, we already, there's another amendment that says there's no like, set religion in this country.
drea-guns:Mm-hmm.
lisa-guns:Every religion is supposed to be treated equal. So, they didn't want you, oh, this religion is bad. It's scrupulous though, I would say, you know, on the current day when you have all these religious cults, it's a different story. But anyway, go, go into that. So he, said, so it's, you know, this, this whole religion thing became an undertone of all these debates, which is kind of funny because now it doesn't even come into play. And so then we go to, The second version states a well-regulated militia composed of the p body of the people being the best security of a free state. The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infr, but no one religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person.
drea-guns:That didn't sound much different.
lisa-guns:Right.
carey-guns:did, well, so when did, when did that last part get?
lisa-guns:Right. So that's the house version. Then the house version is, you know, then it goes to the Senate. So then the Senate is discussing it and their version, cuz I feel like we're just getting into the weeds and some of this, so let me,
drea-guns:Did they say, fuck that? We don't
lisa-guns:basically did like, they just were like, come on, that's all this religion stuff. there were all these other changes that were proposed. And my computer is not cooperating. It's not, lemme scroll down. Hold on. so the, the, so the phrase referencing to the militia as composed of the body of the people was struck and the descriptor of the militia as the best security of a free state was modified to necessary to the security of a free state. And there are other changes proposed and rejected, including adding limitations on a standing army in time of peace and adding next words, bare arms, you know, for the common defense.
carey-guns:But it seems pretty clear that even within those changes, the, the intent is an army, you know, a, a, a fighting force. not necessarily, or, or the need for a fighting force, not necessarily an individual. Right.
lisa-guns:correct. Everything I found had to do with discussions of armies and state militias, a federal army versus the state militia, not individual household. Having enough.
carey-guns:Right, right. Yeah. Huh. That our new, our Supreme Court seemed to forget that clause,
drea-guns:Yeah.
carey-guns:into that in a minute.
lisa-guns:all right, so the final language of my final sentence here, my finale, is that the final language of the Second Amendment was agreed to and transmitted to the states in late September of 1789, and then it was ratified. Here we are today with the Second Amendment as is. So that's my presentation.
carey-guns:interesting,
drea-guns:Thank you, Lisa.
meags-guns:Thanks,
lisa-guns:welcome.
carey-guns:it's, you know, the landscape is, it's changed quite a bit in some ways. In some ways it hasn't. so now we've learned, you know, kind of about the history and, and where we were or what, I guess gives us the second amendment today. And so I'm gonna talk a little bit about the regulations that the, kind of, the modern day regulations, what we have, what we don't, what we can't have, what we can't. And, And then I'm gonna hand it over to Andrea who's gonna talk a little bit about what kind of activism we can do and, some specific suggestions for what can happen here in, in Texas, which is probably one of the least, well, is one of the least regulated gun state or states, for guns in the United States. Probably not surprising to any of you. so, the world of gun legislation is, or gun regulation is guided by a, about 11 different laws. the first one this was kind of surprising to me was passed in 1934, which really isn't that long ago. It was called the, national Firearms Act. And what it did was taxed, the transfer and manufacturer of a, a variety of firearms, like machine guns, long guns. All sorts of different firearms. handguns weren't really a thing yet. it, and it didn't address hand come handguns. And that's, that's important to, just to kind of keep in mind. and the legislation was actually spurred on because, it, well, if you remember, prohibition was enacted a few years earlier, and so that the spike in gun violence coincided with the ban, with prohibition. And so the na, the federal government was like, Hey, why don't we tax these guns and make a little bit of money off of it? and it also mandated that guns were registered. so that was, you know, pretty broad. And then, between 34, 19, 34 and 19 or 2004, there were only nine other federal laws. And, and they basically, they all regulate in some way gun and gun ownership. yeah, including in 1994, through 2004, there was the Brady Assault ban. Oh, assault weapons ban in which all of the terrible assault weapons we see used in these mass shootings were actually banned for 10 years in the United States. Following the assassination attempt on, Ronald Reagan, the man who was I, I, I don't think he was killed. He was paralyzed though, was with Reagan's entourage. When Reagan, the, was, there was a, assassination attempt. Brady was paralyzed and eventually the Brady. Law, what was called the Brady Law was, was passed. And that, ban, that was an assault weapons ban. I, and I don't, I don't know why it, it sunsetted, why there was a provision to sunset it. I, I suspect that's the only way they could to get it passed. But thinking about the political climate now, and I don't even know, I, I, I just don't think that they could get, even, like for five years, I don't think they could get an assault weapons band passed. so, you know, quite a bit has changed. and
drea-guns:Why do you, why do you think has changed so much? Or do you already have that in the loss?
carey-guns:well, I think, one of the, I, I think it started happening to change in, in early two thousands in, in the Bush administration years. and then in, in 2004, the laws looking at guns. I mean, basically there's only, Three classes of people that cannot own firearms, fugitives, felons, and the mentally ill, but that not just being mentally ill. You have to be invol, you have to have been involuntarily placed in a mental institution. so, so just those three class people, that's it. Anybody else has a, a right to own a gun. and so, you know, really that's not very much re regulation from the feds. it really just, regulated distribution and things like that. And then in 2004, kind of the first pro gun legislation was passed and that allowed, or exempted gun manufacturers and gun dealers from being sued for negligence arising out of, you know, being, they, I mean, they couldn't get sued if somebody got killed by one of their guns. and that.
drea-guns:that's convenient.
carey-guns:Yeah. And it's been, you know, unfortunately since that was passed, that has just kind of stir, what's the word I'm looking for? Well, it, it, it has started, started this kind of arms race amongst the gun manufacturers cuz they knew they weren't gonna get sued. So they have like all these new things that they're coming up with that may or may, may not work when you put it on your gun. but who cares? They're not gonna get sued.
drea-guns:Oh my God.
carey-guns:so it's just, it was just a give me to the industry and it's, you know, we shouldn't, we shouldn't be surprised by that. I'm sorry, that was passed in, in 2005, 2004. There was, that was, that was kind of the first law. 2004 was the first law passed that. wasn't a regulation, it was kind of a, like, I guess you would call a, what was a protection of the individual right. To carry. And that was law enforcement officers were now grant, are now granted immunity and they can carry their service weapon while they're off duty. and so there's legislation towards that and you know, that, again, looking at the timeframe, that kind of makes a lot of sense cuz it, we're here, we're coming on the heels of kind of nine 11 and, so, and, and the, the law enforcements were, was probably enjoying like the peak of its popularity. it makes sense that, that this was passed.
meags-guns:I was gonna say, or maybe we could say that rights were experiencing their greatest trampling on
carey-guns:That is a very good way of framing the issue.
meags-guns:I.
drea-guns:Everybody else's rights
carey-guns:Yeah.
meags-guns:I feel like that could, you know, you could look at that from a couple different
carey-guns:Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah, it was, it was, not since World War II had we been under more restrictions of our rights and, you know, some of those, well, a lot of these remain today. And, and so one thing that I found out was that, in the gun industry is a 28 billion industry, a year billion. okay. in comparison. And I just picked an industry that I thought something that like a lot of people have, so I did the headphone industry. so in comparison, the headphone industry is 17.5 billion, 17.56. So almost, you know, a little a about 10 billion less than the gun industry. And I haven't done a, a deep dive into the inform, you know, the numbers or anything like that. But I think it's safe to make the conclusion then that more people own guns than headphones. And that is terrifying to me, isn't it? To you, I mean,
lisa-guns:well, I think part of it is, I mean, there are more guns there. The people that own guns own more than one gun.
carey-guns:mm-hmm.
lisa-guns:I mean, they own like, Well, for example, that murk guy in South Carolina, I mean that guy up like an arsenal of guns at his hunting watch. I mean, it was insane. And then he didn't even really keep track of his guns. It was ugh,
meags-guns:I, I, I.
carey-guns:doesn't matter. I mean, there are a lot of states, like Texas being one included. You don't, you can just go have a gun. You don't have to register. You don't tell anybody. You don't do
lisa-guns:Missouri got rid of all that. You didn't have to have any training or anything, you know,
carey-guns:Yeah. So,
meags-guns:I think the, the other thing about comparing it to the headphone industry is I think there's definitely some significant price differentials, like headphones max out somewhere around the 300,$400 mark and guns can go.
carey-guns:yeah. I'm not saying it's
meags-guns:Guns are always shockingly expensive to me. Like I'm always astounded by how much they cost.
carey-guns:Yeah. Well, that's true. I mean, maybe I should compare it to the, I don't know what's another, like ex the Peloton industry or something like
meags-guns:Yeah, I was gonna say like, yeah, I think it's hard. It's hard
lisa-guns:gone through a recall. I don't know if guns ever get recalled.
carey-guns:just to under, well, no, they're exempt. so yeah, just the idea that there are, but there are industries that are dwarfed by the gun
meags-guns:No, I, I hear you a hundred
carey-guns:I think that is probably a uniquely American thing. you know, so I mean, in Switzerland now we could take up the Swedish approach, which is, in Switzerland, you actually, every, I don't know if it's, it's probably not man, any longer, every adult person is mandated to have a gun because they are a neutral country. So the, the thought being like, at any time everyone, you know, any country could be like, fuck you, Switzerland, we're invading. and they don't have an army. so every person, I dunno, a lots of people are supposed to have guns, but the big limiting factor here is that it has to be kept at your local police station. So, I mean, they don't really have gun violence because you'd have to be like, Hmm, okay, I have to go down the police station and get my gun. And I'm sure you have to say like, why are you getting this out? And yeah.
lisa-guns:Right. I'm sure if you went down and said, I'm pissed off at my wife, I need to shoot her. I will not give you your gun.
carey-guns:So I mean, if we wanna have, quote unquote well regulated militia, you know, that's, that's an option. Everybody, you can have a gun. Sure. But you gotta, you gotta keep that at the local police station. I can imagine that passing.
lisa-guns:I like that. I like the Swiss way.
drea-guns:Yeah.
carey-guns:So, I, I should point out that, you know, there, there have been some regulations at the federal level, just last year, the bipartisan, this is pretty funny. It, it, it's called the, the Bipartisan Guns, safer Communities Act. a stupid name and it, expands background checks for purchasers.
lisa-guns:Tell us how you really feel, Carrie.
carey-guns:Well, I don't mean, I don't think it's a, a surprise to anybody, but it, you know, it expands the background checks to our purchasers under 21 to include and, their juvenile records. so let's think about this. That means that people, you know, I, nobody ever had their juvenile records checked. And a lot, you know, a lot of people that's there, there's some bad people under 21 that probably shouldn't have firearms. So I'm glad to know that that's happening. I'm, I'm concerned that it wasn't happening before.
drea-guns:I have, I have a little extra information about that. That'll be alarming.
carey-guns:oh, that's coming up.
lisa-guns:I was gonna say juvenile records, I mean, most of those, they're like, they're not public information, so how does that work?
carey-guns:I don't know, Lisa, that would be an area that requires more research, but I'm just, this is what the bill, says.
drea-guns:Good question. Good question.
carey-guns:yeah, good question. So it, and the, the other two things that it does that, that are important, and again, things that you would think were already illegal, but it is now illegal to purchase a gun or a weapon for someone who is otherwise restricted from carrying one. as I mentioned before, that's felons. The mental or the admitted involuntarily admitted mentally ill and fugitives. I would've thought that it was already illegal to buy those, and, and give them someone, but apparently it's not. It is now. And it closes the, the quote unquote boyfriend loophole. And this is really kind of, I'm sure it was, it's an un unintended consequence, but it, it was really horrible. Up, up until this loop or they closed this loophole. A person convicted, convicted of domestic abuse generally is per, prohibited from owning a gun. but that law, it, it only applied to people who were married to living with or had a child with the victim. So a boyfriend, a living boyfriend wasn't covered. so if they, yeah. Right. so, now they have closed that and they, they also may not possess firearms. Now, certainly, people will point out that all of these regulations only apply to people who are going to follow the law, and people who commit these types of abuses aren't following the law. and, and that might be true, but I mean, it's, it's something, and it gets us, you know, one step closer and it was bipartisan. so I think there, and I think there's some evidence of, of this that the NRA is, is losing a little bit of its traction. And, and, and I'm talking a minuscule amount, but. They have real, you know, people have seen these mass shootings and, you know, as everyone knows, if Sandy Hook couldn't really change the tone, nothing ever will. But I mean, we've just had so many since Sandy Hook, so many, mass shootings that, I, not everybody as is on board with the NRA as as once was. so at the federal level, and I'll, I'll hurry this up a little bit. at the federal level, there aren't very many regulations. so it, it falls naturally then to the state levels. and the federal government, federal Supreme Court has, has chimed in a little bit on that. and unfortunately in, in 2008, they, they took a look at the Second Amendment for the first time and they, first declared that, a handgun was, is an arm or arms under the meaning of the Second Amendment, because up until then, It wasn't clear, that it didn't only apply to long guns. We're talking about malicious. They didn't have handguns in 17 seven whenever it was ratified.
lisa-guns:17.
carey-guns:yeah, so we didn't, handguns weren't a thing. so interestingly, they, they say they'd take an originalist approach to interpreting the second Amendment, which means that they think about how the founding fathers intended this law to be applied, and yet they also declare that handgun is an arm underneath the, in the meaning of the statute when those didn't even exist. So it's a little duplicitous to, to suggest that they, they're just trying to keep the original intent of the law intact. but
lisa-guns:Right? If everybody wants to own a musket, I'm all for it. Go for it.
carey-guns:right, exactly. Yeah. If it takes like 20 seconds to load one shot, All
lisa-guns:All right,
carey-guns:fine. so,
drea-guns:That's what I hate about the originalist thing. I'm like, yeah, they didn't have the, you know, they didn't have these guns that we have back then. Like that what they were regulating is not what we have now.
carey-guns:And normally when you're, do, when you're talking about regulations, kind of the overarching justification you can have for re regulation is public safety. a lot of laws get passed, based on public safety. Fact, think about vaccination laws, all those, those are all public safety laws, drinking water laws. but the Supreme Court in 2010, in a decision that I don't have listed, but it's like MacArthur's something, I don't know, starts with the end anyways, with that decision, Sorry, I lost my train of thought there.
drea-guns:Something about MacArthur in 2010,
carey-guns:Yeah, I know, but where was I before that? okay.
drea-guns:were talking about regulations and
carey-guns:yeah. Yeah. So, regular, it'll come back to me. We're, we're, we're getting there.
lisa-guns:It all come together all
drea-guns:is like a real, this a real conversation.
carey-guns:so, yeah. Right. So the, yeah. Alright, so that, that, that other, the Supreme Court case said, also said that the right, they interpreted the right to keep and bear arms. Unconnected from service and militia. So it's like they just kind of deleted that service and militia part, and they decided that the right to keep and bear arms was an individual. Right. which it, you know, that that's the first time that the court de had ever, recognized an individual right there. up until that point it was kind of assumed that the court would recognize like this collective. Right. but at any rate, and of course, the implication of that is individual rights are much harder to regulate. so, or much. Yeah. they're much more easily considered unconstitutional. so, so that was, you know, that was kind of a blow. and they also ruled that self-defense, was a, It that kind of took the place, place of a militia. You know, like they, they made the comparison that self-defense within the home is, is kind of like having a militia, which I don't think, again, that's, very accurate, but, but that's the way it goes. so the District of Columbia's ban, on handguns was kicked out. and the other thing the court struck down were any restrictions that, rifles, shotguns, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, be kept unloaded and disassembled. Many states had that, restriction. and trigger locks are also unconstitutional or requirement of trigger lock, which keep in mind is just a lock on your gun.
lisa-guns:That is ridiculous. You know, how many kids like find, I mean, how many shootings or does some. Here finding a gun and shooting someone on accident, if there was a lock on the gun, that wouldn't happen.
carey-guns:Right. And, and the locks now are, are so sophisticated that we can just use your hand print. I mean, they're, they're, they're, they're really effective
meags-guns:and say, if I can use my finger to open my iPhone,
carey-guns:Yeah. Yeah. The technology is
meags-guns:like the, the, like the technology is everywhere, like biometrics are everywhere.
lisa-guns:Yeah.
carey-guns:So, yeah, I mean, but the, yeah, the idea that one of the arguments is, wow, that's stupid. To have a lock, because what if I need it really quickly? I won't be able to get it out of the lock. But, you know, these biometric things are, it's like, boom, you're open. So it, it's a stupid, stupid thing. And what I had forgotten about before, but now remember, is. that in the, in this m whatever case, in 2010, the court ruled that public safety was no longer a, justification for gun regulation loss. And that was pretty much the gun, that, the justification for all gun
lisa-guns:That makes no sense.
carey-guns:So basically, if you want to write a gun regulation law any longer, pretty much has to depend on commerce. if you know, so it's something affecting commerce, and you could
lisa-guns:Oh, so, oh, so it's like an interstate commerce
carey-guns:perhaps, perhaps, but public safety at any rate is no longer a justification.
drea-guns:Of course not.
carey-guns:so yeah.
drea-guns:Why would you do that?
carey-guns:so as you can imagine there, you know, the gun guns are regulated differently in, in every state. California is the most regulated, Alaska is the least regulated, but that's not very surprising. I, I mean, I lived in Alaska and like, if I ever had thought about having a gun, it would've been in Alaska, and that wouldn't be a handgun. I want like a big long, I can kill a bear gun. so I, and that's the only reason I would say is because like, it, there's a, a real risk that you could run into a, a big animal that wants to harm you. and then also the native Alaskan tribes, many, many of them are subsistence livers. so they hunt, they eat, but, so it, it makes a certain amount of sense that there, there's not very many regulations. But you know, keep in mind that these assault. These mass shootings aren't occurring because of rifles. so, but next up would be Arizona. They, they have, they are the most regulated state. I thought it was gonna be Texas, but I, I am wrong and I can't, did, I think I put it somewhere. Texas really only has like one regulation on guns. And I, I'm gonna turn it over to Andre here in a second. He's gonna talk a little bit more about Texas, but,
drea-guns:I didn't write any regulations, so if you, if you, if you have something there, then.
carey-guns:So, you know, in, in taxes that, like I said, there's almost no regulations. there, there's no permit needed, there's no registration needed. There's no restriction on, the mag, a limit of a magazine. there's no license needed. There's no permit needed for concealed carry. once you're 21, it is, it becomes a quote unquote, shall issue state, which means that, that the state m they, they have to issue over 21, unlike many states, which is may issue, which allows for, you know, a little bit more regulation, but it's a, a shell issue state. Now it's a may issue for 18 to 21. but, you know, I, I don't know. That's, that's pretty much cold comfort. It's co it, it's certainly cold comfort that an 18 year old can can buy a gun. and, and of course there, there are no background checks. So it is, I leave you with that, just saying that the, the future of regulation, I think is, it's an uphill battle. There's, there's, you're going to have some, have to have some really creative lawyering and, and creative legislate state legislators who come up with laws that can kind of pass this extremely high threshold, you know, what's constitutional, what's unconstitutional. but there are, there are many advocacy organizations that are incredibly effective. Moms. Demand Action is one of them. They're, they have some great laws. Great. model state laws and, you know, anybody who's interested in getting involved in the fight should reach out to them. They're moms demand to action. I think it's moms demand action.org. and even if you're not a mom, they're, they're, they're much broader than that, but they, they were started following Sandy Hook and they're a wonderful advocacy organization.
lisa-guns:Yep. been to a few of those meetings myself.
carey-guns:yeah, so, so with that, I will hand it over to Andrea.
drea-guns:Thank you. Well, I, that's funny you say that about Mom's demand action because that's something that I, I'll also bring up a little bit. okay. So anyway, I just, I guess I wanted to give you guys a, my warning is that you guys know how sensitive I am, so I might start crying when I, when I talk about school shootings, cuz I very find them very upsetting, as anybody would. Yeah, it's worth a cry. So, oh God. Stephen talking about it. Didn't wanna cry. but I guess you guys know that the Parkland, well, you probably don't know, but, so like the Parkland shooting happened when Azaela was in high school, and like by then she was just, just so terrified. So terrified of a shooting, like a school shooting that she ended up graduating a semester early, just to avoid being in high school. but while she was there, like right after the Parkland happened, her dad, he had some sway at the high school, and so he was able to push them to install these, like, heavy duty locks on the doors, at least of all the, the rooms. So I think like someone couldn't get in, do you know what I mean? Like, they couldn't force her away. I think that's what they were. So, I, but I, you know, like I. I'm sure if you were a really crappy shooter, you could figure a way around that. But I, I think that that was at least a little bit of comfort to her. So she did.
carey-guns:Yeah.
drea-guns:mean, so she finished up, but you know, she was just terrified and, it's always concerned me. I guess one thing, I, I didn't put this in here, but one thing is like, she saw like a psychologist when she was little cuz she was anxious and one of the things she was anxious about, which I didn't even know, was the school shootings. And the psychologist, would ask her to kind of like, size it, right? Like, what's the likelihood of this happening? Was it really likely? Or just maybe a little bit likely. And you know, the older she got, the less I could, I could say to her that this will, this, this just doesn't, you know, this'll never happen. Cause you, you know, and like, not only
lisa-guns:then it would happen again.
drea-guns:I know, and it happens. And, and it also, you know, she was at an affluent, pretty much all white high school. and that's where a lot of these happen. Yeah. That's where a lot of these happen. And so, you know, it was like very, very hard to reassure her. and so then speaking of affluent schools, I like, I'd always, I'd always been concerned, but the Nashville shooting, like, it's happened in March and it was, you know, like an affluent school, private school, I
lisa-guns:Yeah. Christian School, isn't it?
drea-guns:yeah. And, and so, you know, three nine year olds and four adults, including the shooter were just, you know, snuffed out. And I was like, I, I just, I really, I realized that for me, Gun violence had superseded abortion as like my top issue, which is huge cuz you guys know, like it's been my top issue for like 30 years. So, but I mean, and I, and it's not like I don't care about it anymore, it's just that like, it's very complicated. it can be like morally ambiguous for some people. there's nothing morally ambiguous about keeping people from shooting up other people. Like, you know what I mean? Like that's
lisa-guns:Nobody thinks it's okay.
drea-guns:Yeah. Like, yeah, exactly. So, and then, so, so there, there's that. And then, Rick Scott, right after the Nash Nashville thing happened, sent out this fucking tweet that just blew my fucking mind. he wrote, we need to consider an automatic death penalty for school shooters. Life in prison is not enough for the deranged monsters who go into our schools to kill innocent kids and educators. And I was like, you know, I mean, I, I was pissed off because that shooter was dead. The shooter was
carey-guns:They usually are. Yeah.
lisa-guns:the end of it anyway.
drea-guns:Like I looked it up, about 50% have already received the death penalty that very day, you know? And so I was like, so who cares? but more than that, I was just like, there's something wrong with this And, and so I, yeah, I kept thinking, you know, I'm like, and I do for business, for work, you know, I do a lot of process engineering. And so I started mapping out the process in my head, and then I was like, okay, a person wants to shoot a gun. They get a gun, they shoot the gun, they get good at shooting the gun. And at some point, I don't know, maybe it was beforehand, they decide to kill people and then they decide to shoot up a school, and then they shoot up a school, and then someone calls 9 1 1, and then police come and kill the killer. And so I was like, so I asked myself like, what, what is wrong with his logic? Like, why does giving someone the, death penalty not really matter? And so like, what assumption was he making? So I'm just gonna put that out for you guys.
carey-guns:Yeah.
drea-guns:Like, what is
lisa-guns:I just say the assumption of these people that always talk about the death penalty is they think there's gonna be some sort of deterrent for, for people to not commit certain crimes. And we've, there's been a lot of research. I mean, I'm not an expert on it, but I've heard plenty of news stories. About it that it doesn't work like it does not to
carey-guns:Not
meags-guns:I mean, ha have they, have they never heard the phrase suicide by cock?
carey-guns:Right,
meags-guns:not aware of how many people put themselves in front of law enforcement with a weapon in with, because they don't want to have to kill themselves. They want somebody else to have to
lisa-guns:Right. They're ready to die.
meags-guns:Like they don't, they could care less, whether you tell them they're gonna get the death penalty.
carey-guns:Right,
lisa-guns:It's not gonna stop'em
drea-guns:Yeah.
lisa-guns:Stupid.
drea-guns:So, So what, like what I came to was this idea that like, well, his assumption is that we could not, we couldn't do anything until after a killing. Right? Like he's assuming that like, these people are going to be dead he's not thinking at all about prevention. And I, and that's what, and I, that's what I was really, I was like, I can't, and that, and it brought me like to this other kind of idea that gun advocates have, about like arming teachers and administrators so they can stop a shooter. So like, how does a teacher know that there's a school shooter in the building? Like how would you figure that out?
carey-guns:Right.
drea-guns:And I'm asking you guys
carey-guns:Oh, well, I mean, you would, you would probably hear somebody, the shooting, right?
lisa-guns:the shooting or they've, they've done apparently, no, there's a lot of, they do like a PA saying, saying like there's some sort of word or something that they'll say over the PA system so that they know that to go into lockdown mode.
drea-guns:Exactly. And why are they going into the lo lockdown mode? Because the fucking shooter is there, right? They have not, they haven't committed, you know, they haven't prevented anything. You know, I mean, like, I'm just sitting here thinking, I was like, okay, well, you know, the teacher finds out they have to react. I mean, it's gonna be, take a while to react anyway. You're not used to hearing gunfire.
carey-guns:You're
lisa-guns:Well, and the other, this, I don't know if this is, has to do with what, where you're going with this, and I'm sorry for interrupting, but I just know that my child children's school district, they have put in like millions of dollars in changing, in doing more construction on the entrance of these schools. In fact, the high school used to be this like open campus model that they, I mean, it needed to be updated anyway, but you know, they've totally like added, the buildings are all gonna be connected. There's gonna be a secure entrance. All the elementary schools and middle schools over the past, like five years have all gotten these like, There's like almost like a bulletproof area before you get into the reception area of every school. I don't know if it's really bulletproof, but when you stand in there and you're like, cuz I've had to like drop off stuff from my kids that I've forgotten stuff during the
meags-guns:Well, there's, there's an airlock. There's like, there's a place where they have you, they have you isolated before they let you in, before they buzz you in.
lisa-guns:exactly. So it's just like, and it's, and it's, I'm glad I'm so happy that they're spending money doing that, but at the same time it's upsetting cuz I'm sure there's plenty of other things they could be spending money on, but no, we have to spend money on this stuff because everybody can go get a gun
drea-guns:Yeah.
lisa-guns:anyway. So that's just my little thing.
drea-guns:no, I mean, and I do kind of get to that, so, so like just following up with the teacher scenario. Teacher is armed scenario, someone's gonna die cuz teacher's gonna find out after people are dead. so, so then I was talking to someone about Sandy Hook. You know, and they just started spewing all of the things that we can do to protect kids, like at school without changing gun laws. And, he was like, like the administrators could have a better, control of who can get into this school and they can have productive glass and they can have this and that. And I said, Sandy Hook had all of that. They had protective glass. And you know what, that motherfucker had bullets that were so, so, you know, could penetrate it, you know? I was like, and so that, I mean, it shut this guy up. But then I was like, what are we gonna do? Like, literally what you were just talking about is like a prison. It's like, we're sending our kids to prison. I mean, are we gonna put a razor wire? Are we going to electrify the fences? I mean, like, what? You know, we gonna break up the fucking windows. I mean, like, what? I mean, I just, I mean, maybe we'll put some TURs up, turrets up, and then we can have armed guards. Right? Why not? it like blows my mind the way people think about this.
carey-guns:placing the responsibility on the school district, you
drea-guns:Yeah,
lisa-guns:right.
carey-guns:I mean, it's just such a cop out.
lisa-guns:Mm-hmm. Oh, and all the teachers are supposed to have guns too, but we can't, we can't trust teachers with books, but we could trust'em with guns. But that's a.
drea-guns:Yeah, well, yeah. I don't have, we don't have all night. so, so anyway, like I really, at that point I realized I was, I was like, I've gotta do something about this. And so, but you know, as you guys know, I live in Texas and people like are, they're not giving up their guns. I mean, even trying, it's just completely futile. And so, like, I, I was like, you know, if I tried to take someone's gun away, I would get shot. So that's out of, that's not gonna, that's not gonna work. And just going along with what Carrie had said in 2021, this legislature passed a law to allow people to carry handguns in a holster without a permit.
carey-guns:The Texas legislature correct.
drea-guns:Texas, did I say something else?
carey-guns:No, I just was clarifying.
drea-guns:Oh, thank you. Yes. So, you know, to sh so basically though, you have to share your holster so people know you have it. I was like,
carey-guns:it's so much more comforting to me. Yeah, I, you know, and coming from Pennsylvania, it's just weird. I mean, it's weird to walk in the grocery store and people have, people have a side arm.
lisa-guns:Are you serious?
drea-guns:Oh yeah.
lisa-guns:Well, in, oh, well, in St. Louis they could if they wanted to, but the grocery stores have big signs that say, no, you are not allowed to have a gun in the store. And it's disturbing to me that they have to have those signs and that's bad enough.
carey-guns:well, no, the guns are worse. And it's weird. It's just weird to see in a grocery store,
drea-guns:No kidding. So, okay, so back to getting rid against in Texas. So obviously it's not practical. I found I did find some stats that the National Shooting Sports Foundation has estimated that there are over 24 million AR fifteens and similar rifles in the United States. And I couldn't find, do you wanna say something? I heard some reactions there,
carey-guns:it just seems like an awful lot of gun. Just the assault rifles. I mean, that just seems like an
drea-guns:just the assault rifles. It's just the assault rifles,
lisa-guns:what? I mean are we under attack or does the state militia need to be called up? I mean, why do we need all these guns?
drea-guns:I dunno. protection. That's
lisa-guns:Mm-hmm.
meags-guns:environments. There's environments that need shooting and I mean, they're definitely not gonna survive an AR 15
drea-guns:No. No, one does.
lisa-guns:a bunny into pieces in the air,
drea-guns:so anyway, so I couldn't find a statistic that like whittles the number of guns in Texas down to, you know, AR fifteens, but I did. But estimated that there are over a million guns in Texas and for in perspective, the next closest state is Florida and they have half a million. They have half a million.
lisa-guns:that doesn't surprise me.
carey-guns:Wow.
drea-guns:Yeah. So Texas has twice as many as Florida.
carey-guns:Yeah. Oh God. No wonder if this is just a scary place to live. I maintain, get a great day. I
lisa-guns:is
carey-guns:well. Perfect. Protected.
drea-guns:so back to what Carrie said, like I did find the volunteer, organizing organization, the moms take action and they really are Demand action. Yeah. Demand action. Thank you guys for helping me here. so anyway, so they had a few ideas for laws that I think I do think we could get happen here. it would take, it would take time and energy, but I, I think it's possible now that there's so many, people that have died, all over the
carey-guns:a, there's a huge public groundswell. I mean, if you look at the public, the public supports more gun regulation. The public supports an assault weapons ban. It's the electeds that's the problem. And
lisa-guns:They wanna keep their lobbying money.
drea-guns:Absolutely.
carey-guns:the pressure to be extreme, so,
drea-guns:Yeah. Yeah. So one, one thing I think we could do, I think we could, enact an extreme, like a, an extreme risk law, which is really just a, you know, it's a red flag law. And these laws, they give, they give families in law enforcement the ability to get a civil court order. To temporarily prevent a person from accessing guns. these, apparently these laws have actually really worked for law enforcement in cases where a person, they pose a risk to a school. and so, so they can't purchase or access fire firearms, you know? And so, and it's also includes people who are, who commit acts of vi domestic violence. so you basically, you just report them. And say like, I think this person's dangerous and why? And then, and then you, go from there. And then this is going back to the what we were talking about, like how you can't have a force of trigger lock and things like that. some, there are safe storage laws in some states that, that require,
lisa-guns:in.
drea-guns:that require parents that, so actually to lock up their guns. Yeah. So the kids obviously said the, so the kids can't get to them, which like to me is like a no-brainer. I was like, who wants their five year old getting to the AR 15?
lisa-guns:I feel like it's once a month. I'm mean have to talk about AR 15, but I mean like once a month in St. Louis, it seems like there's some kid that finds a gun in their parent's home and SH shoots themselves or somebody else.
drea-guns:Yeah. Well, I mean, if you were to liken it to something, I mean, you're re you're required to put a seatbelt on your kid Right. To keep them safe and, you know, you should get your children vaccinated to keep them safe. So like, certainly you could put your guns in a safe to keep your children safe and you,
lisa-guns:a simple gun lock. I mean, there is like, I did the training. I never actually went to like a community event for moms to be in action, but there's like a simple lock that they give away that. It keeps the gun safe. I mean that it's not hard at all. Doesn't take that much time to unlock it if you need it.
drea-guns:I am with you. So, okay. And so then this, I'm going into background checks now, so, so like, there were three ideas that I thought could be feasible. And so this last one is this background check. I do, I'm sorry, I'm interrupting myself. I think what really has to happen is that some of the, some of our elected officials have to lose people in like in these
lisa-guns:Yeah,
drea-guns:So that's like, Yeah. So, but the background checks, so like right now, a certified gun dealer who's selling a gun has to run background, background checks on their, the folks that they're selling to, to make sure, like convicted felons and domestic abusers don't get them. And then, but a non-licensed seller, they can sell at gun shows and online
carey-guns:Oh yeah.
drea-guns:to anyone,
lisa-guns:Yeah.
drea-guns:no
lisa-guns:Wasn't that the big thing with Columbine? They were like gonna get rid of that loophole because that's how those kids got those guns. Gun show loophole.
carey-guns:gun shows are not going away.
drea-guns:Oh, no, no,
carey-guns:they're
lisa-guns:I mean, it's just sad. They talked about getting rid of that and that was what, 2000, 2001? Nothing.
drea-guns:Well, so the loop, obviously it's loophole. It's actually loophole in the federal law. and, and every town survey in 2015 showed that 22% of gun buyers did not get a background check. That's a quarter, that's almost a quarter of'em are not background checked. That's
lisa-guns:those who
carey-guns:I believe that. I
lisa-guns:Those who admitted it.
drea-guns:Yeah, exactly. so, so, so like I said, like I feel like those could be potentially feasible. I, I think in Texas, I'm not saying like next year, but you could definitely push those and get them, because you're not keeping people from, like I said, like you're not keeping people from having guns. So you don't have the manufacturers, like in fact, the manufacturers might support it, like there's no reason not to support these things.
carey-guns:Especially if they can just go into the business of making trigger locks,
drea-guns:Yeah, exactly. And safe, safe boxes and stuff like that. So your good point, good point. We should point that out to them. So not only can you manufacture your guns, you can manufacture stuff to make your guns safe.
carey-guns:right.
lisa-guns:you go. We, the four of us just set up a meeting with some gun companies
drea-guns:No. Smith and Wesson we're coming for you. alright, so anyway, I guess this is my last thought on this is like, I started thinking about who, what, who has done something like this very effectively. Like who? Well, no, where like, think of like, they've been going at it for decades that you guys are gonna guess this really fast. and, and they ha it's basically a single issue that's been incredibly effective at getting more and more restrictions passed over the last 50
carey-guns:Oh, the pro-life people.
drea-guns:Yes. Those motherfuckers.
carey-guns:Yeah.
drea-guns:so,
lisa-guns:so everybody needs to become a one issue voter
carey-guns:No, I mean, but they've gotten their, they've gotten their judges passed. They've gotten their ele Yeah. They, they had a great gown, ground game, and of course we were just stuff stuck holding the bag.
drea-guns:yeah, well we could have stepped up our game, but anyway, we, we didn't. And
carey-guns:We should have, yeah.
drea-guns:we should have Yeah. Like, Anyway, so I've been thinking, like, I've been thinking like, well what are the things that they did? Like, what are some of the things they did and what can we adopt that they did? You know? And I was like, to get things done. And I was thinking about how, I remember when I was in high school, I was at, I was at, church or something and someone came in with a, like an anti-abortion kind of poster with, you know, showing like a late term abortion. And, and it was very, very upsetting. And I was like, maybe we need to show some people that, like maybe we need to show people what it looks like to have a five-year-old ripped in half by an AR 15. Like that might, cause that might, I mean, cuz right now what do we get? We get their pretty little head shots from when they were in school. And how, how much of an effect does that have?
carey-guns:Well, I don't know. I mean, I don't know if, if the, the thought of 22 mil murdered children doesn't. Spur people to make change. That was probably the biggest disappointing part so far of the gun move, or I should say the gun regulation movement. It is that after that, when it seemed like there was just this kind of boundless goodwill towards, you know, making some changes. I mean, even Trump was on board
drea-guns:Yeah,
carey-guns:and, then it just poof.
drea-guns:yeah,
lisa-guns:I don't know if it's the deniers. They think these peop, it's all actors and it's not real. I mean, are there that many crazy
carey-guns:it
drea-guns:Uh, no, I don't think there're that many people like
carey-guns:It has nothing to do with the destruction that the guns cause. It has it, I mean, to people who are, let's see. I guess pro guns, I don't, I don't know. Pro guns, let's say. it, it's all about the right to own. It doesn't matter what you do with it. It's about this is your right to own it. I mean, if only there was like another, right. Hmm. Let's say, ooh, maybe if we didn't regulate the right to an abortion, like we didn't regulate the right to guns, there would be some parody. Uh,
drea-guns:I know,
carey-guns:but yeah, I mean, it's not, I, they don't care about the, clearly the destruction doesn't matter. It's just the right, you know, I
drea-guns:but they don't, I don't know. Like they don't see the destruction. I mean, think about like Vietnam, like people started really turning against Vietnam when, you know, they started seeing the carnage,
lisa-guns:right. The bodies that came back.
drea-guns:bodies, what? The pictures that the press took.
meags-guns:All right. So
drea-guns:yeah,
meags-guns:what I did, I did not do, do nothing to prepare. I prepared,
drea-guns:I'm
meags-guns:but I was, I was a little concerned that we were all gonna be on the same side and what kind of discussion happens when we're all on the same side. So I spent a little quality time going through the posts from the people I know, from the various parts of my life who are currently avidly supporters of guns and any number of other things. and, and for all, all kinds of different reasons like libertarians. you know, like I recently saw someone that we all know who's a very reasonable human, who mentioned that she and her husband have guns in the house cuz he's concerned about, you know, natural disaster and something and needing them afterwards.
drea-guns:Hmm.
meags-guns:You know, like, which was a good reminder to me that like, you know, not there, there is middle ground on this issue. I
carey-guns:Oh
meags-guns:like, like so many, like so many things in America, it's turned into like this just wildly disparate like two ends who are just never gonna find any way to the middle. so it was, you know, I spent a little time reading the people who are way over on the other side and that was disturbing at best.
carey-guns:Yeah.
meags-guns:but I think that one of the things that struck me is how many of the people I know who really are adamant about guns and having lots of guns and carrying their guns all the time, choose to homeschool their children
lisa-guns:Whoa.
carey-guns:I mean, it's just this general distrust of government,
meags-guns:Well, well, it's a general distrust of like America in general, even though they're here and they're very passionate about being Americans, they're like very standoffish to the, pretty much the entire world,
carey-guns:yeah, yeah. Right. It's this idea of like just no regulation period.
meags-guns:Right. so I spent a little time reading about that and that was crazy and interesting and disturbing all at the same time. and then the other thing, the other thing I wanted to bring up was, Carrie, when we had talked about this before, Carrie had mentioned what I think is probably the best gun control idea I've ever heard. So I'm gonna ask her to share it cuz we, it hasn't come up yet about the, the liability insurance.
carey-guns:it was, when I was working for Frankel, I was, we were looking at, you know, just some reasonable, quote unquote that Le Gun legislation that, that maybe we could take a look at work on. And, and one, model legislation is, it's a liability provision where you can buy as many guns as you want and you, but you have to also buy liability insurance just like you do with your car. So if an accident occurs, I mean, as we know that we can't sue the gun manufacturers, there is some compensation, to the survivors of the family. and, and, you know, I, I think that that is very reasonable and it's not regulating you're,
meags-guns:that's super duper reasonable. I think that's
lisa-guns:I love
meags-guns:the angle to take.
lisa-guns:one of the reasons my husband sells insurance for a living, so that's great. There's more insurance he could sell.
carey-guns:Yeah, but you know, it, it's, it's just, I, I mean, once they get the, if they ever, if they got the insurance companies on board, then, you know, then it's a battle between the gun lobby and the insurance. That's pretty good. I mean,
drea-guns:That's a good, that's a
carey-guns:you know, that they're at least well matched, so,
drea-guns:Yeah.
carey-guns:or resource I should say. But yeah, I mean, at, at some level, I, we do, and you know, our, the liberals, we have to accept that it is, it, it's a right to own a gun. And, so we have to work within that frame framework. They're not going away.
drea-guns:they're not going
meags-guns:Well, that was the other thing I was thinking about and you, Drea, you made me think about this when you were talking about kind of the, looking at the process and it's like, so why do people, why do so many people feel like they need to have all these guns?
carey-guns:Yeah, right.
meags-guns:It's like they, they don't feel safe. So how do we help? Like, so what do we, what do we need to change to help people feel safe so that they don't feel like they need to bring a gun to the grocery store?
lisa-guns:So can I just, so this is a, I hate to bring up this horrible man again, but when I was listening to that Mardo trial, that's what really got me is like he had so many guns at his hunting lodge and I do, and it was like just this like hobby, you know, of having all these different guns. And I think that's what a lot of the,
meags-guns:I, I definitely know people like
lisa-guns:it's just this like hobby and they've got money to spend and they just buy all these
meags-guns:Yeah. They're toys. They're toys just like their snowmobiles and their fishing boats
carey-guns:But we're
meags-guns:all that stuff.
carey-guns:we're not gonna stop that. There are always gonna be that, that segment and, and I don't even know if regulating that may would make a difference because by and large people who have those kind of stockpiles and hunting lodges and things like that. They are not gonna, they're not the mass shooters, they're just not.
lisa-guns:but he still ended up killing his family. But that's another story. But I mean,
carey-guns:there's a ton of other shit that can happen, but not
lisa-guns:right. Well, the fact that they just lost a gun, they weren't sure what happened to a gun. I'm like, is this for real or is this just some random defense? Because
drea-guns:Are we talking about the
lisa-guns:if you have a gun, you should
meags-guns:can't not talk about the Murdoch trial. Of course. We're talking about the Murdoch trial,
lisa-guns:We are sorry,
drea-guns:I, I like cut out and then I came back and you were talking about the, I was like, oh, the.
lisa-guns:so, a gun was missing and then it probably was used as a murder weapon. But it's like if a gun, there should be some sort of law where if a gun disappears, you report it to the cops. Like, why wouldn't wouldn't that? That should just
carey-guns:Wouldn't matter in Texas because they don't have to be registered. So,
lisa-guns:Right. Not in Missouri either. But
drea-guns:Yeah. I, I mean, it's a, it's a good idea. It's a good idea. So I, I just don't, I, I mean, I just think that like we need to kind of what Carrie was saying, stick to what could happen, like what we could do. and so, and of course I can go and just be militant on my own and like send these people really awful things. Awful stories.
carey-guns:you have to, we have to focus on the movable bill, you know, the, the people and, and polling shows that the vast majority of Americans are in favor of gun gun regulation of some sort. so we just have to find the things that we agree on.
drea-guns:Yeah.
lisa-guns:So, I don't, I was, I had no plan of bringing this up. But I want to, because I've had gun arguments with people and they bring up that I'm some sheltered white girl who I don't know anything about guns. And what's my experience with guns, and I'm sorry to bring this up, Carrie, but I had a gun pointed at me. Carried it too. And I'm sorry if I don't feel like people should have so many freaking guns in this world. Anyway, sorry. But that's always when I start getting into a debate about guns that pops into my head. So just had to say it. Sorry.
meags-guns:That's the that, and I like, that's one of the things about this whole argument is like it's very intensely emotional on both sides. Like we have these people who are terrified that you're gonna take their guns away. And then you have these people who are like, you know, daughter's, my daughter's, high school career because she's terrified that there's gonna be my shooting. There's just a lot of like, there's just a lot of like fear and upset and emotion and it's like I really, I don't know how you take that out of an equation like this, but boy, it makes it a million times more complex.
carey-guns:It
drea-guns:I mean, I, I think if you can just assure people you're really not gonna trying to take their guns away. And I really am not. Like, I, it's not practical. It's not, it's not like my intent, my intent is to stop shootings,
lisa-guns:It's to keep guns outta the hands of bad people.
drea-guns:Yeah. Or, yeah, like, like, and I'm not, I mean, cuz you know, we we're talking about mass shootings, but a lot, most, you know, a lot of them are. Murders of spouses and, and pe you know, it's
carey-guns:Right. Yeah. I mean, that's probably how more people die is, you know, just like the, gang violence, things like that.
lisa-guns:shootings with kids getting ahold of a gun.
drea-guns:Run of the mill. Domestic violence, you
carey-guns:Right. And hopefully some of these laws trying to target domestic abusers will help because if nothing else, it gives law enforcement a tool to arrest, you know? so, and I mean, that's a pretty clear one. Domestic, you know, you've been convicted of this, you can't have this. Okay, you go to jail. There's not, there's not much wiggle room. There
drea-guns:yeah. No, yeah. I think there's a lot to do. So, we have gone a long
carey-guns:we have.
meags-guns:We
carey-guns:It might be a two-parter.
drea-guns:This is, this has been a very interesting, night, so I, I appreciate you guys, humoring me
carey-guns:at.
lisa-guns:I, enjoyed this. This actually was more reminiscent of when we're actually together in person, the discussions we have with research to back it up.
drea-guns:well, I did wanna point out, I just learned it today on the Mom's Demand Action website, is that June 3rd is National Gun Violence Awareness Day.
carey-guns:Orange everyone.
drea-guns:Where?
lisa-guns:Yes. your orange
drea-guns:Yeah. So,
lisa-guns:gonna come out before June 3rd?
drea-guns:oh,
carey-guns:I've seen it out.
drea-guns:it. I think you should talk about the podcast.
meags-guns:yeah.
carey-guns:Oh,
lisa-guns:yeah.
carey-guns:I thought you meant the advertising. About where? Orange.
lisa-guns:No, I just meant this podcast. By the time this coast comes out, June 3rd will be
carey-guns:Well, I, oh, so this is our happy June 3rd PA podcast.
drea-guns:Well, I wasn't planning on it, but it does seem apropo.
meags-guns:It, it does line right up. can I read you guys my favorite quote about guns?
carey-guns:Yes.
drea-guns:Yes, totally.
meags-guns:because this one, I've loved this one for a long time. My dad used to have somebody in his office who had this up, on, on tur bulletin board, and it's from Mitch Ratcliffe, and he says, A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any other invention with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila.
carey-guns:True.
meags-guns:So like, you know, just something to keep in mind. It's a tool, but boy, it's a tool that, you know, you use it wrong in consequences, much like a computer. Like you can really get yourself to a lot of
carey-guns:Yeah,
lisa-guns:You can.
drea-guns:you can.
carey-guns:by sitting here.
drea-guns:Maybe, we'll maybe, we'll, we'll do an episode on computers.
meags-guns:oh boy.
drea-guns:All right, guys. Good night. I'll talk to y'all later.
meags-guns:Love you.
lisa-guns:bye.
drea-guns:Bye.